Bobby Czyz:
Former World Light Heavyweight and Cruiserweight Champion
The
ANNOTICO Report
Bobby
Czyz is a Former world light heavyweight and
cruiserweight champion, a member of the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame, and has
been inducted into the National Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame as well.
Czyz is often assumed to be all Polish, actually is 3/4
Italian and 1/4 Polish.
Czyz was a brute, with a soft heart, a very bright person (Mensa), who had a very close relationship with his father,
that when it turned sour, and his father committed
suicide, it caused Bobby such guilt, that he became a
tortured man, who accomplished much, but was denied even
greater fame.
AN
INTERVIEW WITH BOBBY CZYZ
PART
1: Formative Years, Amateur Career, and The Rise and Fall of a Middleweight
HardCore Boxing
Greg
Smith
Editor's Note: Originally Published - 9/17-18-19/2005
Before conducting the interview with Bobby, I thought I knew about as much as
any boxing aficionado could know about the details of both his career and his
life. All told, I knew about his upbringing in northern
Nevertheless, for the sake of journalistic integrity and due diligence, I
prepared for the interview by studying hours of tape, reviewing several
internet articles, looking over old magazines I hadn't read in years, and
repeated the process until I felt I had everything in perspective.
To brush up, I had two preliminary phone conversations with Bobby before the
interview totaling a little over an hour. After reviewing the research
material, and verifying some items with Bobby, I
carefully constructed 25 questions with the goal of! building
a broad and complete personal and professional mosaic
Regardless of the preparation, boxing interviews are kind of like a box of
chocolates: You never know what you're going to get. As I discovered quickly,
there was infinitely more to the picture than meets the eye. The first twenty
years of Bobby Czyz's life kind of mirrored the
roller coaster-like nature of his career, but in a more visceral, complex, and
sometimes paradoxical manner.
Bobby Czyz was born on
"That is not completely correct. I was born in
Bobby also provided additional information about his early years by speaking
candidly about his parents.
"I was born five days before my father turned eighteen, and four months
before my mother turned eighteen. So, I was obviously not a planned child. They
had both dropped out of high school. My father got his GED, and my mother
didn't. She had three kids before she was twenty. So, it was children raising
children, if you will."
For the Czyz family, life was difficult from the
beginning.
"When my parents got married, and got back from their honeymoon, they had
a grand total of forty cents. They had to borrow money to pay for the cab to
get home. They lived with my aunt and uncle for some time. They were taken in;
family is family. They then lived for a while with m! y
grandparents, which I have memory of. My grandparents had a two family home. We
had the upper floor, and they had the bottom floor. Once my mother and father
got on their feet a little bit, they paid a nominal rent."
When Bobby was four-years-old, the Czyz's moved to
At the age of ten, Bobby's parents were called in to have a meeting with his
teachers at the school. Normally, most parents would be worried when school
administrators make a call to parents, but the meeting between the teachers and
Bobby's parents proved to be a stunning, pivotal point in the life of the Czyz family.
"The school system had called in my father and my mother to tell them I
was too advanced. They recommended that I move out! of
the area because I had finished the entire school year's curriculum --along
with a young African-American girl named Courtney Chambers-- by April. We had
to just sit around in May and June while the rest of the kids caught up. We had
34 kids in the class. Some of the kids who were ten years old could barely
read, and the teachers had to cater to some of that. The administration just
called my parents and said they needed to get me out of there because I wasn?t going to get a proper education."
The Czyz family then moved to Wanaque. Bobby
classified his section of the city as "lower middle class", but the
educational system was very good. Bobby's intellectual capacity was certainly
nurtured in the transition, but the move from the inner city to the suburbs
wasn't an example of seamless bliss.
Bobby's father, Robert Czyz Sr., grew up in very
rough circumstances. He was only two when his own father died of a heart
attack. He eventually became a member of a str! eet
gang, and was once incarcerated at the Jamesburg reformatory. Rubin Carter and
James Scott did time at Jamesburg as well.
Bobby describes his first impressions of moving to Wanaque.
"I was the long-haired kid with city clothes. It wasn't just the city
stigma, but the city attitude. From the age of four, my father taught us how to
defend ourselves, and how to box. I have video tape of me at the age of three
or four, punching with him, him smacking me in the face, and punching. People
look at that and laugh. They say, "Wow, it started that long ago"??
Bobby started his amateur career at the age of ten when the Czyz's
moved to Wanaque. Bobby had done some informal, backyard boxing with neighbors
for a few years previous to moving to Wanaque, but moving to the suburbs didn't
stop that from becoming the major focal point of Bobby's formative years. As
Bobby illustrates, boxing was a destiny chosen for him by his father.
"We moved to Wanaque in th! e
first week of September of 1972. I was ten. The very next week, he took me to
the gym in
Five years later, Bobby had won the Junior Olympic State title twice. He also
won the East Coast Regional title twice. He won the bronze medal in the
Nationals. Like Tony Ayala Jr., Bobby was often matched with grown men in the
gym. Bobby's reputation wasn't simply on the amateur level, but in the pro gyms
as well. He also used to lie about his age to enter certain tournaments.
"They used to call me "The White Boy With
Soul." I fought more like a black or a hispanic fighter. I had a lot of rhythm when I
fought. I fought more like they did. People still don't understand to this day
what soul is. I tried to explain what soul is to a couple of writers who have
interviewed me. I tried everything I could think of to explain what soul ! is. I finally came up with
the following analogy, and everybody seemed to get it."
The analogy is just one of those things: You either get it, or you don't.
"If you watch Larry Bird play basketball, he's technically correct.
Everything is perfect. His execution is correct. Everything is correct. Then,
watch Michael Jordan play. You can't describe what Michael Jordan does. It
isn't technically anything you can put a finger on, but that's soul. That
floating through the air with the grace that he has of making the impossible
happen. That's soul."
I think I understand Bobby's meaning, but disagree with part of it. Larry Bird
was a genius in a hick suit.
Realistically, Bobby's talent level is a study in what his father called
"balance" Bobby had a great chin, but
he didn't have exceptional speed or power. He had a "package of reasonable
goods" that could be molded, shaped, and honed to a fine edge to carve out
something exceptional when mixed ! with
will, fortitude, and toughness. To put it another way, Bobby had a short
68" reach, but was long on heart, and unusually intelligent to the point
where he knew how to maximize his strengths, and minimize his weaknesses.
As Bobby was developing and making a name for himself
in the amateur ranks, his father was always by his side. Robert Czyz Sr. inculcated Bobby in a manner many would deem
unorthodox. First, Bobby was raised by his father to be an atheist. At an early
age, Bobby was questioning the meaning of God. He liked the idea of living
eternally, but Bobby's father explained a different reality.
"Listen son. There are people that believe in God, and people that don't.
People that believe in God believe in God because they're taught that by their
parents, who don't know any better. If you want to be eternal, and live
forever, you can only do it in one or two ways. You can get married and have
children, and have your blood line and your name will go on !
forever. But there's no guarantee that your children
will have children and continue the process. The other way is to become so
special that you'll become part of history. Preferably, not like Hitler, who
was a heinous assassin, but for doing something like being President, winning
the Olympics, being a world champion, or winning a Super Bowl. To be so special
that your name will live forever in sports or something that has to be
footnoted forever."
This type of upbringing created problems in the neighborhood. Many children
were not allowed to play with Bobby because of his atheism. Regardless of the
negative ramifications of Bobby's atheism, Czyz
became a highly driven, goal-oriented achiever. Not only was Bobby a perfectionist
in training, but in the classroom as well. As mentioned in the introduction,
Bobby was a distinguished student. He balanced the two well, but with the iron
fist of discipline of his father to drive him farther.
It is well known that Bob! by, his siblings, and his
mother were subjected to physical abuse by his father. The byproduct of the
abuse was two-fold. Bobby feared failure and not performing up to expectations
based on his own goals, but it was taken to another level if he made a mistake
that would result in a beating by his father. If Bobby got a B in school, he'd
get smacked or grounded. At the same time, it created a very tense atmosphere
and ambivalence in the household. It was a love and hate relationship at a
different level.
To illustrate the complexity of this dynamic, Bobby and his mother spoke about
the meaning of Bobby's car accident that prevented him from being part of the
The polarity created a quality in Bobby that can only be described by him.
"I have every single plateau in between both (parents), and both extremes.
I can be the nicest, sweetest guy in the world, or I can slit your throat and
dip my sandwich in your bleeding neck if you cross my family, hurt me, or harm
the people I love. and have no compunction about it.
It was the way I was raised to see the world."
When police were sometimes called to the Czyz
household, Bobby said the police were afraid because his father was a sharp
shooter, and was known to be heavily armed and ruthless. Bobby's father was
also self-educated. He read all of the volumes of the encyclopedia, and
actually read the dictionary twice. Bobby told me his father was obsessed with
being omniscient.
G. Gordon Liddy's best selling book,
"Will", and the Nietzchean philosophy of
the Overman, became a huge part of Bobby's character ! development as well.
Bobby's father once ordered him to climb a tall tree as a way to cure his fear
of heights. Today, Bobby uses skydiving as an adrenaline rush, and as a method
to continue conquering his acrophobia.
What doesn't kill him makes him stronger.
On the other side of the coin, Bobby's father called him "Chappie" in the tradition of the relationship between
Jack Blackburn and Joe Louis. It's a complicated example of love, devotion,
loyalty, brutality, resentment, and anger from myriad angles. Today, Bobby will
tell you that his father's temperament and intellectual abilities were an
example of a man on the borderline of genius, madness, and sociopathy.
Regardless of the many issues Bobby had with his father, they ultimately worked
together to get his pro career going in 1980 with the goal of creating an
indelible legacy on the boxing landscape. They realized that simultaneously
going to college and being a successful professional boxer didn'!
t mix. It was simply one or the other. To be great,
one had to concentrate and perfect the craft or chosen profession without
distractions.
As mentioned in the introduction, Bobby turned pro shortly after his eighteenth
birthday, but his first year as a pro was tough. He wasn't managed or marketed
quickly with the help of the "Tomorrrow's
Champions" concept in 1980. However, Bobby had some good things going for
him as well.
Bobby chose Lou Duva as his manager, and Tommy Parks
as his trainer. Ironically, Parks was a guard at Jamesburg when Bobby's father
was incarcerated there. Parks also trained Rubin Carter. Bobby's father spoke
well of Parks, and the relationship between Parks and Bobby was done on a
handshake; no formal contract. That relationship never changed throughout
Bobby's career. Tommy was a friend, trainer, sometimes father figure, and
inextricable part of Bobby's life and career.
Bobby?s career permanently
changed in 1981 with his impressiv! e eight round decision win over Teddy Mann. Bobby became
part of "Tomorrow's Champions," and his career took off. Bobby's ring
presence and outside-the-ring charisma attracted the networks and fans from all
over the country. People sent him gifts. They offered to have him stay at their
house or condo when he was traveling. Women would send semi-nude pictures of
themselves. One family acquaintance actually commissioned a song about Bobby
through his father. Bobby never used the song during his entrances to the ring
because he was partial to the song "Fame." Over twenty years later,
Bobby has held on to a copy of the song because it's actually superb. The
lyrics are great. You can listen to the song here by clicking on the link at
the top of the page.
Bobby said all of the adoration and strange overtures were "crazy"
and new to him, but his natural discipline, coupled with excellent matchmaking,
superb training and sparring, and vision to become the best kept him from be! coming another victim of the limelight. He continued to win,
and win impressively.
Bobby's early 1982 win over Robbie Sims created the highest ever Nielsen rating
at the time on NBC. Lou Duva saw opportunity, matched
Bobby with more southpaws, and started to set his sites on a title fight with
Marvin Hagler, even though Bobby was only twenty.
Bobby enjoyed his success and notoriety, but he truly didn't believe he was
ready for Marvin Hagler. As Bobby said, "I was
only twenty. I wasn't ready for a guy like Marvin Hagler!!"
Duva ultimately put together a card in November 1982
matching Bobby against Mustafa Hamsho.
Notwithstanding Bobby's protests, Duva's goal was to
use Hamsho as a bridge to Hagler.
Some observers, including myself, felt Bobby might be able to beat Hamsho. Hamsho was infinitely
more experienced and battle-tested than Bobby, but Hamsho
also cut both badly and easily. I thought Bobby would intelligently aim for Hamsho?s scarred brows, and come
away! with a possible TKO victory without engaging in
a war of attrition.
I was wrong.
First, Bobby wasn't exactly crazy about fighting Hamsho.
He felt Hamsho might be too far a step up, and
rejected Duva's initial offer to face Hamsho for $125,000. In fact, in a strange turnabout, Duva actually once advised Bobby that Hamsho
wouldn't be a good fight for him. Mustafa was a rough, dirty, and strong
southpaw. That kind of fighter can be a career breaker, not a career maker.
Bobby was a little confused by the change, but was still intrigued. As Bobby
told me, $125,000 was a lot of money at that time, and represented more money
than his father made in a few years. Nonetheless, Bobby was cognizant of the
risks, and was adamant that the amount simply wasn't enough.
Bobby's rejection of the offer created a tough situation. As Bobby later
learned, his name on the marquee was central to the fruition and creation of
the card. Shortly after Duva's original! offer was rejected by Czyz, Lou
came back with an offer of $175,000. Bobby felt that the counter offer came too
quickly and conveniently. It made him suspicious that the money was there all
along, but wasn't being offered in a completely honest manner. Despite Bobby's
concerns, he ultimately accepted the offer, and the bout and card were made.
The story of Hamsho - Czyz
is well known. Bobby came out as a southpaw, and tried to peck away at Hamsho's scarred mug. He broke his hand in the second
round, and was clearly outgunned in his first defeat. Hamsho
was simply stronger, more seasoned, and better on that night. Bobby told me
that even if he didn't take the powerful diuretic, lasix,
for several days leading up to the bout to make the weight, and didn't break
his hand, he's not 100% sure he would've beaten Hamsho
on that night.
He just wasn't ready.
To this day, Czyz holds no animosity towards Hamsho. In fact, even though it was tough to absorb th! e
first loss of his career, he actually felt a sense of relief. It put him in a
position where he could rebound, and make significant changes in his career.
A few years ago, Hamsho and Czyz
participated in a 9/11
Bobby then loudly joked, "What the f..k!
You did it twenty years ago. Why don't you do it again!!"
Everyone in the crowd got a good laugh as Hamsho
softly did it again.
After the
In his first defeat, Bobby was neither bitter nor angry on a short-term or
long-term basis. It is another example of the manifold, but ba!
lanced nature of Bobby's mentality and character.
After losing to Hamsho, however, Bobby didn't realize
how his character and life would be challenged in the next year.
PART 2:
Tragedy, Free Agency, and a Two-Time Champion
?If I could snap my fingers and my father would come
back to life, I would cut off both my hands. At the same time, I really, truly
regret that he never saw me win the world title.?
----Bobby Czyz
Minutes after Bobby lost to Hamsho, I listened
closely to the post-fight interviews to get a gauge on the respective mental
sets of both fighters. Bobby was humble and rational in defeat. He didn't make
excuses in the post-fight interview. He learned a lot in his first defeat, and
indicated that he'd like a rematch with Hamsho in the
future. Bobby's market appeal may have dropped off in the eyes of fans and
boxing experts, but it wasn't a defeat that would keep him down permanently.
His hand was broken, but his spirit wasn't.
At the same time, Hamsho was very complimentary of Czyz in the post-fight interview. Mustafa said he did! n't think Bobby had enough heart
to hang in there with him before the fight, but felt Bobby showed a lot of
heart and talent in defeat. Bobby's father spent several minutes in the ring
with Hamsho afterwards, and actually had his arm
around Mustafa as they spoke. Everyone was respectful. Mustafa?s career was officially on an upward spiral, and
Bobby would have to rebuild.
In the months following his defeat to Hamsho, Bobby
underwent a bone graft procedure to repair his right hand, and his hand was in
a cast for approximately ten weeks. Sparring and training weren't a part of his
lifestyle for the first time in years. It was certainly a time to ponder his
future considering that he had suffered his first defeat, and he was also
experiencing serious difficulty in making the 160 limit. Bobby was poised to travel
on another path, but not before extreme tragedy would occur.
Despite the fact that Bobby had suffered his first defeat, and was vilified by
the press, his! aggregate purses and career
progression in two years as a pro were significant. Bobby viewed his success in
many ways, which created a variety of dilemmas as well. From one perspective,
Bobby and his father worked hard together over the years, and a strong bond
existed between the two.
To illustrate the unusual bond between father and son, when you watch tapes of
Bobby's early fights, one of the first people to enter the ring after a fight
was over was his father. They almost always embraced, and spoke for several
seconds in obvious love and respect before the trainers, promoters, managers, and
press could descend on Bobby.
Behind the scenes, however, Bobby also saw boxing as a vehicle to get him away
from the negative aspects of his father. To further compound the situation, as
Bobby's earnings and notoriety grew, his father tried to assert more control
over the relationship. It was a confusing and difficult situation for Bobby to
manage because his father ha! d taught him to be an
independent thinker; his own man.
"This (boxing) was my way away from him. As I exercised my manhood, as I
started to make my own decisions and started to grow, it pissed him off. What
he was teaching me was pissing him off."
As the months of 1983 passed, the conflict between father and son grew to a
breaking point.
"That's when things hit the fan. I came home one day. He was out. As he
came home, he pulled me aside and said, "How are things between us?"
I know something's coming when he does that. It's just a set-up.
Bobby knew something was out of kilter, and braced himself for a rough
interaction. Bobby's father informed him that he threw one of his brothers out
of the house. The situation then escalated. Bobby challenged his father based
on his father's own teachings.
"You taught me all my life that my brothers and my sisters come before you
and mom. If you're going to hurt them, I gotta help
them."
Bobby'! s father responded, "Well, I'm changing
the rules right now. Bobby couldn't accept that explanation, and retorted,
"You can't change the rules right now."
At that point, a "heated" verbal confrontation occurred, and Bobby's
father turned the issue in a different direction.
"You're nothing without me anyway. I kicked you up the fu..in ladder of
success. Without me, you would fall flat on your face. I made you what you
are."
Bobby quickly answered.
"Maybe. You put in a lot, but I put in a lot. I
still got it. Everything you taught me, I still have. Everything I am, I still
am. Without you, I will go forward."
Bobby and his father never came to blows, but the issue reached an extreme
boiling point. The years of love and admiration, but mixed with physical and
mental abuse, resentment, and anger finally came to an intractable end. Bobby
ended the conversation with the following.
"Tell you what. Keep all of the money. Keep all o! f
the sh*t. Keep everything. Tomorrow, you're dead to
me. I got a mother, two brothers, and a sister. You're dead to me. I have no
father."
Bobby then left the house, and took the family dog for a walk. When he
returned, his father was watching television, and completely ignored Bobby as
Bobby entered the house. Bobby describes the eerie events as he observed his
father watching TV while not acknowledging Bobby's presence.
"He wouldn't talk to me. He stared at the TV. He didn't blink for twenty
minutes, which I thought was impossible to do. He just ignored me. The silent
treatment was his thing. But you always had to go apologize to him. He always
said, "Even if I'm wrong, you gotta come to me
and apologize." So I tried to apologize for what I said.
The apology was met with stoned silence. Bobby then went upstairs, and went to
bed.
That night, Bobby's father shot himself.
Bobby found his father the next morning. Needless to say, the! impact of his father's suicide was devastating in many ways,
and Bobby was self-reliant in getting his life back on track.
"You know, I was in the bottle for three months. I just drank myself to
sleep. I couldn't erase the look with him in the chair. One day, I locked
myself in a room. I did my self- hypnosis. I call it self-programming. I shut
down everything. Put earplugs in, and blindfold on. I just sat there for 5 or 6
hours. I said to myself, You're going to get up, and
you're going to start tomorrow and get back on track. You're going to do this.
You're going to follow it through to wherever it takes you.That
was the last day I had a problem.
Nevertheless, Bobby was haunted by nightmares about his father's suicide until
five years ago.
"I used to have the same recurring nightmare. The doorbell rings, and it's
him. He's dressed in his suit, but he's got a hole in his head with blood
everywhere, which I saw when I found him in the morning. It's a re! al horrific picture.
Bobby has used a variation of his self-hypnosis or "self-programming"
to cure his nightmares.
Amid all of the personal turmoil, Bobby re-started his career in September 1983
with a second round technical knockout of Bert Lee on the undercard
of the Pryor - Arguello rematch. As mentioned in
the introduction, I was very surprised by how sharp and powerful Bobby looked
on that day. Weighing 162, he actually looked faster, stronger, and more
polished than in many of his previous performances. Bobby's ability to perform
at an optimal level under inordinately adverse circumstances is yet another
example of an inner toughness few can fathom.
As Bobby rebounded from personal tragedy, and attempted to move his career
forward, he began to experience some unexpected roadblocks. Bobby fought in the
range of 163 ѕ to 168 in his three fights after stopping Lee. If Bobby
was considering a move to light heavyweight, he would likely find himsel! f in a delicate situation.
The fifteen pound increase from middleweight to light heavyweight is
historically difficult. Taking into account Czyz's
lack of height and reach, and Michael Spinks was ruling the division at the time, it seemed likely that the 22-year-old Czyz would run into significant career inertia.
Coincidentally, the super middleweight division was created in 1984. 168 pounds
seemed like a great fit. Czyz's marketability certainly
took a hit in his loss to Hamsho, but he also seemed
like a great beta test for the start of the new division. After all, he was
young, more seasoned and experienced, looked good in his fights after the Hamsho loss, and it was well known that he had struggled to
make 160 since he was a teenager. It may have seemed like a natural fit, but it
wasn't that simple.
Czyz was experiencing managerial difficulties with
the Duvas. The Duvas were
pressing him to sign a long-term contract, but Bobby didn't feel completely comforta! ble
with his business dealings with them at the time. Bobby refused to sign the
contract, and started doing business with them on a fight-to-fight basis.
Meanwhile, the Duvas were doing business with veteran
Murray Sutherland. Sutherland fought between middleweight and light heavyweight
throughout his career. In 1981, he lost to Matthew Saad
Muhammad on a gallant ninth round technical knockout in a bid for the WBC light
heavyweight championship. In 1982, Sutherland challenged Michael Spinks for the
WBA light heavyweight title, but was dominated and stopped in eight rounds. On
the undercard of Holmes - Cooney in June 1982, I
watched him get destroyed by the skilled and vastly underrated Eddie Davis.
In 1983, Sutherland dropped down to 160 pounds, and survived in a ten round
decision loss to Thomas Hearns. Sutherland decisioned Alex Ramos in his next fight, but then dropped a
decision to James "The Heat" Kinchen in
November 1983. Sutherland wasn't a hot comm! odity, and was considered more of
a gatekeeper between both weight classes at that point in his career.
As Bobby was struggling with the Duvas, Sutherland
was matched against fading journeyman Ernie Singletary for the vacant and newly
created IBF super middleweight title. Singletary had lost four of his last five
fights before facing Sutherland. Sutherland won a fifteen round decision over
Singletary on
As it turned out, Bobby was led to believe he'd face the winner of Sutherland
-Park. When Sutherland was knocked out by Park, Bobby presumed he'd get a title
shot. Unfortunately, the Duvas actually didn't have
options on Park, and the title shot never materialized. Par! k
ended up defending his title ten times over the next four years against mostly
nondescript opposition before losing the title to Obelmejias
in 1988.
Bobby made major changes after being denied a title shot in the super
middleweight division. Bobby severed his ties with the Duvas,
became self-managed, and never fought at super middleweight again. Tommy Parks
stayed by his side as his trainer, and Bobby signed with New Jersey-based
promoter Carlo Dee.
In his first fight as a light heavyweight in October 1984, Bobby weighed 174 Ѕ
and gave away about a half a foot in height to the rangy Philadelphian, Marvin
Mack. Bobby experienced difficulty with Mack's height, reach, and style, and
was losing the fight midway through the bout.
Bobby had become a seasoned pro by that time, and wasn't worried. However,
Bobby noticed that Tommy Parks was extremely nervous in between rounds, and
tried to take th! e edge off. Bobby looked at the ring card girl and said to
Parks, "Tommy, you see that ring card girl. Get me her number." Tommy
was startled by Bobby's nonchalance, but Bobby's strategy worked. Tommy relaxed
a little, they put together a new game plan, and Czyz
defeated Mack in a ten round decision.
In his next fight, Bobby faced Tim Broady in January
1985. As I mentioned in the introduction, Czyz -
Broady is a hidden classic. It's a fantastic fight
pitting two hungry contenders in a brutal battle. Bobby is typically considered
as a stand-up boxer puncher. Broady was a pure
puncher, and enjoyed a significant height and reach advantage over Czyz. At the time he met Czyz, Broady's record was 15-1-1 with all of his wins coming by
way of knockout. To add to the combustible contrast in styles, Broady increased the level of animosity between the two at
the press conference before the fight.
?He said something to me the day before the fight at
the press conferen! ce. He said, "He's just a lazy middleweight. He
doesn't want to train hard enough to make the weight. I will destroy him. It
will be like a man beating a boy." I was as offended as f..k! I don't talk trash at press
conferences."
Both men traded bombs for three rounds. Czyz used a
beautiful single, double, and triple jab to break Broady's
rhythm, and Broady resorted to haymakers to Czyz's body and head. Bobby countered well with pinpoint
combinations, and looked for angles to set Broady up
for the kill.
At one point, Czyz was badly staggered by a straight
right-left hook combination from Broady. Tex Cobb,
who was a commentator for the bout, thought Bobby was "gone", but
Bobby always had great recuperative powers, and turned the tide going into the
fourth round.
In the fourth, Broady seemed a little bit more tired
by the incredible pace of the bout, and Bobby walked him into a vicious left
hook, causing Broady to collapse in a heap. Broady beat the count,! but was badly hurt. Bobby landed several shots, forcing Broady to the ropes. Bobby describes the final moments of
the bout as he knocked Broady unconscious against the
ropes.
I
didn't just beat him. I tried to execute him when his head got stuck up in the
air. I had watched tapes on him. I remembered what he did when he got rattled a
little bit?.how he put his
hands on the ropes. I remembered after he got up from the knockdown. I
immediately flashed back to the tape. When he gets up---if he gets up---he's
going to go to do this. This is how he's going to put his hands.I'll
come around the side.then come up the middle then get
his head up in the air and take it off. It's exactly what I did. You saw how I
got his head up. I got his head reeling to where if they didn't stop me, I
would've broken his neck. It's amazing to me how in flashes of moments during a
fight, things will come back to you. "Hey, I saw that on the tape, and
then boom!"
It's a perfect description of the ending of the fight. Broady
was out before he hit the floor, and the referee
stepped in at exactly the right time.
Bobby wasn't done, t! hough.
He was still offended by Broady's actions before the
bout.
When the referee pulled Bobby away, Bobby was able to step around the referee,
and screamed at Broady as Broady
was semi-conscious on the canvas. Bobby was incensed by Broady's
arrogance, and wanted to make an extra point that Bobby wasn't the blown-up,
lazy middleweight Broady attempted to characterize
him as.
As it turned out, Broady was so humiliated in defeat,
he actually left the arena immediately following the defeat, and caught the
next flight out of town. His handlers couldn't find him for several hours until
they discovered that Broady was already on his way
home.
After his win over Broady, Bobby put together two
more wins, including the near shutout win over Murray Sutherland. Carlo Dee
then delivered on his promise: He got Bobby a title shot. In an intriguing
move, Dee actually sold his rights to Don King for that fight, and King ended
up promoting Bobby's first shot at a world! title.
After several postponements, Bobby faced Slobodan Kacar
at the Hilton Hotel in Las Vegas on September 6, 1986. Bobby wore American flag
trunks and shoes during the bout, and completely dominated the previously
undefeated Yugoslavian Olympic Gold Medalist on a fifth round TKO.
It had been a tough, circuitous journey. After the fight, he said it "felt
like tears" in describing his emotions after the fight. Bobby Czyz had finally arrived, but not without remembering the
past. Bobby told me to listen to the following quote several times over after
our interview. It is a reminder of what Bobby had been through up until that
point, and his feelings towards his deceased father.
"If I could snap my fingers and my father would come back to life, I would
cut off both my hands. At the same time, I really, truly regret that he never
saw me win the world title."
Bobby's independent streak also paid off. He became one of the few self-managed
fighters t! o make the right moves to win a world
title. Although Bobby had been through a lot by the time he finally became a
champion, he was still on 24-years-old.
Bobby's three title defenses were described in the introduction to this
interview series. He looked great in all of those fights, but in different
ways. He bombed out Sears in about a minute. He knocked Willie Edwards cold in two rounds in what Bobby described as
"a good old fashioned donnybrook." Bobby put on a clinical,
aesthetically pleasing, and near perfect performance in stopping Jim MacDonald.
It is noteworthy that there was some bad blood between Bobby and Edwards going
into their fight. Edwards was as dismissive of Czyz's
viability as a true light heavyweight not to mention a champion---as Broady was two years before. Edwards attended the David
Sears fight, and said he would knock Bobby out in four rounds. Edwards
definitely touched a nerve. Bobby describes his thoughts.
"This really pissed m! e off. He came to the
fight with Sears, because he knew we were looking to possibly fight him next.
After the fight, they said to him, "What do you think? You and David Sears
fought two times. One was a split decision and one was a draw. Bobby knocked
him out in a minute." He said, "I'll knock Czyz
out in four rounds."
Bobby heard the comment, and responded with the following: "I'll tell you
what. If Willie Edwards is standing in the fourth round, I'll quit. He has no
chin. I'm going to make this a f..kin
free for all right from jump street. This fight will never see the fourth
round. I will hit the son of a bitch somewhere along the way, and he'll get
hurt. When he gets hurt, it's lights out.
That's how it happened.
When Bobby lost to Prince Charles Williams in his next defense in October 1987,
it represented another blow to Bobby's career, but also represented the
beginning of a point in his career where he didn't perform as he had since
1983. I asked B! obby about
his losses to Dennis Andries and Virgil Hill. He told
me he was sick for the Andreas fight, and his back was giving him problems in
the Virgil Hill fight.
Bobby's 1989 rematch loss to Williams was another matter. He put up a game
effort, but Williams was far ahead on the scorecards when the bout was stopped
in the tenth round. I asked Bobby what was different about Williams compared to
other fighters considering that Williams was the only fighter to stop him in
the 1980s.
"He was quicker. I had more problems in the gym with speed demons; not
punchers. The speed was a little bit of a problem for me. It was harder to slip
his shots, and get in before his second shot was already there. He threw
punches in better combination than most people, and quicker. I have some
weaknesses, and if you know where to go, you can find them. If I don't make the
adjustments, shame on me, or my corner. He just did some things that I didn't
pick up on completely. Everyone ! has
a bullet with their name on it, unless you're Rocky Marciano
or Ricardo Lopez."
Bobby retired from boxing after the Williams fight, but re-emerged in March
1990 as a cruiserweight with his ten round decision win over dangerous Uriah Grant. Bobby told me that he proved to himself in
that fight that he should continue his career.
Bobby then knocked out undefeated Olympic Gold Medalist Andrew Maynard. Bobby's
stock was rejuvenated, but moving forward in the light heavyweight division at
that time was very difficult. Michael Moorer, Prince
Charles Williams, and Virgil Hill were all talking about fighting each other in
a unification tournament, but none of them ever did. The moves and machinations
between the camps of the three champions created a stalemate in the division,
and Bobby was locked out. Bobby described what happened before and after the Maynard
fight.
?He (Maynard) had a two fight deal to fight James
"The Heat" Kinchen after me. I obviously ! screwed up the deal by
knocking him out. Nobody wanted to see him fight Kinchen.
Bob Arum asked me if I wanted to step in and fight Kinchen,
and I said, ?No thanks.? I told him what I had mapped
out. No one would give me a shot in the light heavyweight division; nobody
wanted to do it. After the Maynard fight, I looked like a hot property again,
so I went up to cruiserweight. I wasn't going to sit there and wait and wait
and just be boxed out. I wanted another title. I looked at the cruiserweights,
and Bob Arum had promotional rights, and I said, "Let's do it."
Bobby's immediate move to the cruiserweight division was quick and unusual.
Considering that many deemed him a small light heavyweight, moving up another
fifteen pounds to 190 seemed like a bridge too far to many skeptics. Even Bob
Arum questioned Bobby's judgment. Arum felt an immediate move to a
cruiserweight title shot wasn't particularly smart without testing the waters
first. Bobby attempted to put everythi! ng in perspective for Arum.
?I don't need a tune-up. I box with Ray Mercer, who
weighs 230 pounds in the gym. I boxed with David Bey.
David Bey weighed 240 pounds. I can handle the weight.
The weight is not a problem. My speed will offset the weight, and I have enough
strength to deal with it. If I?m
not able to beat the best, why f..k
around with the rest. That's one of the jokes I used to use when people asked
me why I would go straight for a title.?
Bobby actually did end up fighting a tune-up fight. Weighing 179 pounds, Bobby TKO'd Horacio Brandan
in six rounds in September 1990.
Bobby then signed to fight WBA cruiserweight champion Robert Daniels. The fight
took place on
Weighing a career high 186 Ѕ to Daniels? 188 ј, Bobby realized
early on that he couldn't match Daniels' strength. At the time, many boxing
experts still didn't consider Bobby to be a diversified technician. That is, he
was not the kind of fighter who could switch up, get on his toes, and box.
Bobby surprised the critics, and came away with a split decision. The
scorecards read 119-112, 116-114, 114-116.
Bobby describes his thoughts on winning his second world title.
?The second title was a little sweeter because to do
it twice, and do it in two different weight divisions, means that much more. It
means you have the talent. I was a 4 Ѕ to 1 underdog. I have a friend who
made more money betting on me than I made for fighting the fight. I made
$185,000 for the fight. A friend of mine made a little over $200,000 betting at
4 Ѕ to 1 odds.?
Bobby also had some extra motivation for t! hat fight.
Bobby had been previously engaged to be married twice: Once in 1983 and another
time in 1988. In 1988, a newspaper article referred to Czyz
as a ?Wanaque Playboy? regarding
his engagement at that time.
Bobby was engaged in 1990 again, and wanted to make a victory over Daniels
extra special for his new fiancйe. For the
Daniels fight, he made a promise to his fiancйe
that he would win. He wanted a headline to read ?Champ
Takes a Bride.?
Czyz's feet were bleeding during the fight. Bobby
told me he always had soft feet, but the pain was exacerbated by the fact the
he was on his toes and sticking and moving during the fight.
Going into the tenth round, he was hurting and tired. He then remembered his
vow to his fiancйe, and came alive. He said the
tenth round was his best round of the fight, and he ended up closing well.
It was a great moment for several reasons. Bobby married his wife, Kim, in
1991. Bobby and Kim are now divorced, but Bob! by
refers to his ex-wife with great affection and the highest level of respect. In
listening to Bobby's tone as he describes his ex-wife and the Daniels fight, it
was clearly one of the major highlights of his career, and a victory that had
been previously overlooked in his career.
Bobby successfully defended his cruiserweight title twice. He won an easy
twelve round unanimous decision over Bash Ali in 1991 for his first defense. In
his second defense, he scored another easy unanimous decision win over former
light heavyweight champion Donny LaLonde.
After defending his title twice, Bobby was on a roll for the first time in
years. He took some major risks, and they were paying off. In Bobby's title
winning effort against Robert Daniels, Bob Arum actually shortchanged him on
his purse in exchange for some free tickets. Bobby was to receive $225,000 for
the fight, but Arum reduced his purse to the aforementioned $185,000, and gave
him $40,000 worth of free ticket! s. Bobby sold several thousand dollars worth
of tickets, and bought Kim a beautiful necklace.
As usual, however, Bobby's good luck didn't last long. As Bobby told me during
our interview, he is often subjected to ?Kelly's Law.?
?Kelly? is Murphy's unlucky
brother. Bobby got hit by a car after his second defense, and was forced to
relinquish his title and start all over again.
In boxing, as in life, Bobby could be hurt and knocked down, but he always got
up. He proved this in more ways than one in the final years of his career.
PART 3:
Heavyweights, Heavy Issues, and a Distinctive Legacy
“Holyfield
is a dirty fighter. He elbowed me. He forearmed me. He thumbed me. He hit me
low. He headbutted me. He
did a number of things. I didn’t complain once. I said, ‘F..k ‘em…whatever...’
I’m a big boy. I didn’t come down with yesterday’s rain. I’m
no boy scout.”
---Bobby Czyz on his fight with Evander Holyfield
“Our sparring sessions were like wars. He only knows one way to
fight, and I only know one way to fight. Our sparring sessions were better than
most fights. They were just amazing.”
---Bobby Czyz on his sparring sessions with Tony
Ayala Jr.
After Bobby recuperated from being hit by a car, he fought at 192 pounds on a
huge card in
As mentioned during the course of this interview series, Hearns
and Czyz had a history. Indeed, it would’ve
been an interesting bout. Czyz was on a roll, and his
marketability was revitalizing with each fight. Hearns
was well above his natural weight, but was still a good puncher at 175 pounds.
He was a better pure boxer than Bobby, but Hearns’
chin was always questionable. It was conceivable that Hearns
might run into problems if Czyz was able to take his
punch, and work inside to Hearns’ body, and then
zero in on his chin.
Talk of a possible Czyz – Hearns
match resurfaced in the early-to-mid 1990s. Czyz
always wanted the match, but once again, it never materialized. During our
interview, Bobby told me he felt Hearns always talked
a big game with regard to a proposed match between the two, but ! always seemed to back out as soon as talks became serious.
He believed Hearns feared that indeed Bobby would be
able to take his punch, and Bobby would eventually catch him.
It never happened. Hearns and Czyz
went in opposite directions thereafter.
In August 1994, Bobby lost on a fifth round technical knockout in a bid for the
IBO cruiserweight title to David Izeqwire. As
mentioned in the introduction to this interview series, Bobby’s often
injured back went out in the fight, he was knocked down in the fourth round,
and couldn’t answer the bell for the fifth round. Bobby used the word “paralyzed”
to describe how he felt when his back went out.
After losing to Izeqwire, Czyz
was determined to continue his career, but not without complications. Czyz’s back condition deteriorated badly, and he
resorted to a radical treatment to remedy his situation. Bobby told me that he
was actually injected with dangerous botulism injections during the final years
of his! career. The injections would paralyze the quadradus muscle for four months, but if the doctor missed,
the botulism would go to his heart, and he would die. This is yet another
example of the extreme nature of Bobby’s mentality, and also an example
of behind-the-scenes issues we don’t discover until after a fighter’s
career is over.
After losing to Izeqwire, Bobby decided to take his
shot and compete as a heavyweight. Despite his natural size disadvantage, he
was remarkably effective against journeyman competition. In 1995, he fought
three times. In March and September, Czyz weighed 206
Ѕ and 207 Ѕ in scoring wins over Tim Tomashek
and Jeff Williams, respectively. He weighed 206 pounds when he won the WBU
super cruiserweight title by annihilating Ricky Jackson in six rounds in
December 1995.
Czyz then decided it was time to take a risk and go
after bigger and more distinguished game.
On
In the days leading up to Holyfield - Czyz, I didn’t think Bobby would win. However, taking
into account that Bobby had a great chin, and Evander
always seemed to have trouble with body punchers and excellent jabbers, I
thought it might be possible for Bobby to give an excellent account of himself
in defeat. I thought Holyfield would win a 97-93 type
of decision, but wouldn’t look great in the process.
Bobby knew Holyfield didn’t take him seriously.
Bobby’s plan was to let Holyfield punch himself
out in the early roun! ds, and then come on late when Evander
would have trouble sustaining his attack. He didn’t think Holyfield trained as he usually did for big fights.
Holyfield – Czyz
actually turned out to be one of the more bizarre and controversial bouts of
the last decade. In the first round, Holyfield came
out fast and tried to knock Czyz out. Czyz absorbed the bombardment, and survived the round. Holyfield continued to try to take Czyz
out in the second round, but Bobby hung in tough.
In the third round, Holyfield pinned Czyz on the ropes, and unloaded a salvo of flush, brutal
shots to Bobby’s head. Bobby’s legs never buckled, and he didn’t
appear to be headed to the canvas.
As Holyfield unloaded, referee Ron Lipton eventually
stepped in and gave Czyz a standing eight count. Some
observers felt Lipton shouldn’t have given the eight-count because it
denied Holyfield the opportunity to stop Czyz with follow-up shots. Others believed that the
eight-count was appropria! te. On the diametric opposite side of the spectrum, Czyz was angry and defiant, and protested the eight-count.
Bobby gives his account of why he protested Lipton’s eight-count.
“You know what I said to him (Lipton)? I said, ‘What are you doing?
This is what we talked about in the dressing room.’ That’s what I
said to him.”
Bobby gives us some additional background regarding his meeting with Lipton in
the dressing room before the fight.
“This is what I said to him in the dressing room. ‘Listen, I’ve
got a good chin. If I don’t wobble---I don’t stagger severely--- or
go down, don’t give me a standing eight count. I know he’s going to
come at me like a bull. I know he’s going to bum rush me, and try to blow
me out in the first round. Do me a favor. Don’t put me at a bigger
disadvantage. I’m going to have to lose two or three of the first four
rounds anyway, because he’s just too big and too strong. But, as he
tires, I’m going to come on. But don’t put me a! t
a bigger disadvantage in the points category by giving me a standing eight
count, which is viewed as a knockdown. Don’t do it.’ He (Lipton)
said, ‘Ok.’”
The controversy didn’t end there. Bobby did come on a bit in the fourth
round, but Holyfield had a good fifth round. Holyfield was tiring in accordance with Bobby’s
strategy, but Bobby’s output wasn’t prodigious, either.
After the fifth round, there was commotion in Bobby’s corner. Bobby’s
eyes appeared red and inflamed. Lipton examined Bobby’s eyes, and then
went to Holyfield’s corner to examine his
gloves. Bobby’s trainer, Tommy Parks, also mentioned that something was
wrong with Bobby’s back. It was a strange, chaotic scene. Bobby provides
his thoughts in retrospect.
“I thought he (Tommy Parks) was stopping it because of my back because he
asked me about my back two or three times. My back had gone out on and off over
the years. I was evidently not doing something he wanted me to do, and he said,
‘! It’s your back.’”
In other words, Bobby’s lack of effective output led Parks to believe
that Czyz’s back had gone out again as it had
at times during his career.
Bobby continues his explanation of the stoppage.
“I said, ‘It’s not my back. I can’t see.’ Then we
were talking back and forth and back and forth, and he said, ‘I’m
stopping the fight.’ I said, ‘For my back?’ He said, ‘No.
It’s your eyes.’ Again, there’s a lot of hectic sh*t in the corner, and sometimes you get some
miscommunication. You’d be surprised. You’re thinking about one
thing, and someone is saying something about another.”
Bobby said he wasn’t experiencing debilitating back pain during the
fight. As he said to me, “It wasn’t great, but it wasn’t bad.”
It was simply that his eyes were burning so badly that he couldn’t see.
Bobby also informed me that skin peeled off of his face, from the forehead to
the chin, the day after the fight. He strongly believes to this day tha! t some sort of illegal
substance was used during the fight. He also had some comments about Holyfield’s dirty tactics and the frequently analyzed
topic of Holyfield’s moral hypocrisy.
“Holyfield is a dirty fighter. He elbowed me.
He forearmed me. He thumbed me. He hit me low. He headbutted me. He did a number of things. I didn’t
complain once. I said, ‘F..k
‘em….whatever...’ I’m a big
boy. I didn’t come down with yesterday’s rain. I’m no boy
scout.”
Czyz then made some comments an increasing number of
people have been making in the last few years.
“After the fight, he (Holyfield) always says, ‘Praise
God.’ Everybody gives him a ride. Here’s the funny thing. He’s
got 12 kids with 9 different women. Let me ask you a question: What religion
condones that? What irresponsible religion condones that? He’s trying to
start his own f..kin’
country! He’s trying to start his own world.”
The controversy of Holyfield – Czyz didn’t stop there. Bobby was! a
commentator for Holyfield’s huge upset of Tyson
later in 1996. I asked Bobby about his thoughts after the upset.
“You know, it’s funny. I talked to some people that were close to
Mike around that time. I said, ‘What happened?’ They said, ‘It’s
your fault.’ I said, ‘My fault?’ They said, ‘He watched
you and Holyfield, and trained for a four round
fight.’
Bobby then responded with the following: “Don’t you understand?
That’s what Holyfield thought about me. That’s
why he looked so bad….because he didn’t train.”
All told, the ramifications of Holyfield – Czyz were significant in various ways.
After the Holyfield fight, Bobby continued his duties
with Showtime, and was out of the ring for two years. In 1998, he decided to
make one last go in the heavyweight division, and got a shot at Corrie Sanders’ WBU heavyweight title.
Bobby lifted weights heavily for the fight. He bulked up to 247 pounds, and
then slimmed down to 220 pounds by fight ! time. Despite the strength program, in sparring, he had some
good days, and some very bad days. He used Maurice Harris, Ray Mercer, and a
tall 6’7” fighter as sparring partners.
Bobby had sparred extensively with heavyweights in the past, including Mercer,
but something was different about this training camp. His body wasn’t
cooperating, and he felt the years of wear and tear were finally catching up to
him. Indeed, Bobby had subjected his body to a lot since he was child. Early in
our interview, he gave some detail regarding the litany of ring-related
injuries he had suffered since he was a kid.
“…the collapsed arches in my feet. The broken hands, the surgeries
on this and that, the dislocated jaw, broken eardrums, nose broken four times…”
Something had to give, and it did. Bobby describes his training camp for the
Sanders fight.
"There were days where I would do real well, but there were days where I
would get in the ring, and all three ! of them would kill me. I would say to myself, ‘I’m
better than this.’ It’s Father Time or Mother Nature…choose
your phraseology…it’s telling me it’s time to stop. I’m
at the end of the line. My body can’t do this anymore…..My body can’t
do this anymore. That punch wasn’t supposed to hurt. That punch never
hurt me. That hurt. That hurt a lot. I remember going home and having
headaches.”
Bobby wasn’t about to quit, however. He steeled himself for one last
push.
“I remember many of the days during training camp thinking this is my
last hurrah. I had done it for 18 years as a pro. 8 years as an amateur. 26
years I’d been putting my body through this. It’s time to take my
shot and bow out. If I would’ve beaten Corrie
Sanders, I could’ve done almost anything for a pay day and left.”
Bobby provides some extra perspective to his thought process at the time.
“A white (WBU) heavyweight champion from
Nobody ever accused Bobby Czyz of being normal.
Truthfully, I think Bobby’s thought process is that of a man who wanted
to leave an extraordinary legacy regardless of the risks, and in accordance
with his upbringing.
In the end, Sanders blew out Czyz in two one-sided
rounds on
In the second round, Bobby tried to mount an attack, but was caught with a
nasty inside left from Sanders, and went down. Bobby got up, staggered into the
ropes, and the referee stopped the fight. Bobby briefly protested, but the
stoppage was appropriate. Bobby wasn’t going to do any better in the
fight. It wasn’t the ideal way to end a career, but at the same time, it
was a clear signal that his days as a fighter were over.
Bobby Czyz went out on his shield in his last fight.
He smartly never returned to the ring.
Bobby’s final ledger of 44-8 (28
During our interview, Bobby and I discussed a variety of controversial and
salient subjects associated with the complex and often counterintuitive world
of boxing. Needless to say, Bobby is well versed and opinionated on various
subjects.
On the subject of pugilistic dementia, Bobby strongly believes that the central
issue of pugilistic dementia is the genetic susceptibility to take a punch.
Bobby addressed the AMA and reporters several years ago on this subject, and
cited several examples. For instance, the Quarry brothers are two of! the most unfortunate and well known examples of ex-fighters
spiraling into decline (and death) due to pugilistic dementia. Bobby pointed
out that the issue wasn’t necessarily that they were boxers, but that
they were brothers.
In other words, the Quarry brothers had the same genetic code, and may not have
been able to sustain punishment like Jake LaMotta. On
that note, Bobby noted that LaMotta has been lucid
decades after his career ended, and not many fighters took brutal punishment
like LaMotta did during his long career. More
importantly, LaMotta had one of the best chins in
boxing history. Thus, people are simply programmed differently, and will be
affected by blows to the head accordingly. In turn, banning boxing because of
pugilistic dementia or other injuries is nonsensical, especially considering
the disabling injuries and deaths that occur in other sports.
On a similar subject, Bobby always appreciated the attention he’s
received from fans, but also s! ensed
some hypocrisy when people would comment that he was smart or good looking for
a boxer.
“To this day, they’ll say to me, ‘You’re pretty smart
for a fighter.’ I say, ‘So if I’m a carpenter, I’m
stupid?’ They’ll say, ‘You’re not bad looking for a
fighter.’ I’ll say, ‘If I’m a lawyer, I’m ugly?’
The connotation of a fighter is such a derogatory term, that people just can’t
believe certain things. Listen, I’m a member of Mensa.
I’m in the top 2% of people in the entire world when it comes to
intelligence. What do you mean? I’m smart for a fighter? I’m
smarter than you! I’m either intelligent, or I’m not. I’m
either attractive, or I’m not. It has nothing to do with my profession.”
Since the days of Jack Johnson, boxing and the issue of race have always been
explosively linked. The issue will always exist, and is unavoidable regardless
of whether we feel comfortable discussing the subject. Czyz
had some comments about race and boxing. During Czyz’s
amateur care! er, he won a
major tournament on national television. The press asked him a variety of
questions, including the issue of Bobby becoming a ‘White Hope.’
“I understood the ‘White Hope’ bull**it because that
surrounded me all the time. They asked me if I considered myself a “White
Hope.’ I said, ‘Listen, I’m white and I’m hopeful, but
not for everybody else…for me!’ I used to joke about it because if
I beat everybody in the world who is black or hispanic or white, that doesn’t mean anything
other than I did the work. Rocky Marciano beat
everyone who was white, black, or hispanic.
It didn’t mean anything other than he was a great fighter.”
On another subject, after Mike Tyson bit off a portion of Evander
Holyfield’s ear in their 1997 rematch, Czyz testified on behalf of Tyson as Tyson was on the cusp
on being suspended. Bobby cited one of his own fights as an example of
committing a seemingly inexplicable act in a split second during a fight. Bobby
called it “situa! tional performance blackout.” Bobby described “situational
performance blackout” in the following manner.
“Sometimes, you’re so caught up in what you’re doing…there’s
so much pressure on you…that you don’t remember it…it’s
just a reflex…it doesn’t register with your conscious mind.”
Bobby used anecdotal experience to illustrate his point. In Bobby’s
cruiserweight defense against Donny LaLonde, Bobby
was in complete control of the fight. At one point late in the fight, Bobby
elbowed LaLonde in the face. The action was
unprovoked and blatant. The referee deducted a point, but Bobby still won a
clear and easy decision. To this day, Bobby is still amazed that he elbowed LaLonde. Czyz’s
illustration may not completely explain Tyson’s actions, but provides
insight into a phenomenon doctors at the hearing actually agreed with Czyz on.
Regarding the issue of fear, Bobby believes that fear is the prime motivational
force behind the actions of everyone. Today, Bo! bby gives motivational speeches, and emphasizes fear,
and the ability to overcome fear, as a way to become successful.
I also asked Bobby questions about the feasibility of a federal commission to
reform boxing. Several years ago, Bobby was approached about boxing reform
after the infamous and controversial James Toney – Dave Tiberi middleweight title fight. Many felt Tiberi was robbed, and an investigation ensued.
Senator William Roth, from Tiberi’s home state
of
“There will be more big money lobbying against this that the Professional
Boxing Corporation Act will never come out of committee.”
They then offered to fly Bobby in to testify ! in front of the Senate Subcommittee of Organized Crime
Investigating Boxing. Bobby was skeptical, but agreed. Bobby paraphrases what
he said.
“With all due respect, Senators, many of you have more degrees than a
thermometer, but you’re boxing illiterates. You’re boxing knowledge
is slim to none, and you’re not educated. You don’t know how the
game works….”
Bobby gave examples of how the sanctioning bodies function as a sort of modern,
legalized version of how organized crime worked behind the scenes in boxing
decades ago. Thus, partially because of the power the sanctioning bodies wield,
in addition to other factors, federal reform is really a moot point.
In the end, the Professional Boxing Corporation Act actually came out in a
morphed and distorted form from its original intent. It never truly dealt with
the main issues discussed when Bobby addressed the Senators in
On a serious personal note, I asked Bobby questions regarding his DUI’s and departure from Showtime. Bobby told me that
like a lot of people in his area, he was being stopped often by the police. He
was being stopped regularly for almost a year before he was charged with his
first DUI. He was never stopped for reckless driving, and his DUI’s were typically in the range of .11 or .12. He
felt he simply failed to wait long enough before driving. Bobby said he knows
over two dozen people in his area who have received multiple DUI’s. Nevertheless, he lost his license.
“It’s embarrassing. It draws some bad publicity because it’s
me (in the public eye).”
He was also forced to undergo mandatory state alcohol rehabilitation because of
the amount of DUI’s. Bobby gives his
description of things he learned in rehab despite the nature of his DUI’s.
“One thing I did learn in the rehab is that they talk about al! l of the things….that you have to take a ‘moral
inventory’ of yourself. I think even for me, as much as I like to think I’m
always doing the right thing, sometimes I’m doing the wrong thing, and I
know I’m doing the wrong thing. I do it anyway because I just choose to.
My mind does control everything I do.”
Regarding his departure from Showtime, Bobby indicated that he was led to
believe that his job was not in jeopardy unless he was incarcerated.
Ultimately, however, he was given a severance package from Showtime. It
surprised him, but at the same time, he was becoming bored with a lot of the
heavy corporate dictates. He loved being around the fighters, but other factors
were burning him out.
“They were taking me away from me. They were taking away the essence of
me. The thing that made me attractive as an analyst was the fact that I did the
fighting and can also articulate well. They were chopping me up to be this
corporate, stale guy.”
Currentl! y, Bobby is doing
some commentating work for Chicago-based promoter Bobby Hitz,
and has been approached to do some work in
Outside of boxing, Bobby is involved in several business ventures. At around
the time he was parting ways with Showtime, Bobby was approached by friends in
the insurance and securities industry regarding a new and innovative
trademarked product. Bobby passed his examinations (third in a class of about
thirty students), and informed me that the product possesses tremendous
intrinsic value and external, financial rewards. It’s a nice step in a
different direction at this time in his life.
In closing the interview, I asked Bobby about his personal and professional
legacy. His answers provide a refreshing and perhaps unexpected insight into
the mind and character of an unusual man.
On the subject of Bobby’s legacy as a person at this juncture in his
life, he joked, “Oh boy, that’s a dangerous question.” Bobby!
actually detailed some of his personal shortcomings.
He admitted to being a “lady’s man”, and that he likes to “run”
with a younger group of people periodically. He acknowledged that he also
sometimes does crazy things, and disappoints himself in the process.
On the other side of the coin, Bobby described himself as a “diehard
friend.” Today, his ex-wife is actually a close friend. After he and Kim
were married in 1991, three of Bobby’s ex-girlfriends called him asking
for advice on their boyfriends. Kim’s ex-boyfriend attended Bobby and Kim’s
wedding, and a few of Bobby’s ex-girlfriends attended the wedding as
well. Despite any differences or break-ups, Bobby is typically a long-term and
reliable friend when a strong bond is established.
I was also intrigued to learn that Bobby has an “eclectic” group of
friends from various age groups and demographic backgrounds. He regularly talks
to a high school friend on the phone, and plays gin and goes golfing with fri! ends
in their sixties. He makes friends easily, and “loves people.” He
also views himself as a good son and brother, although he’s not able to
see his mother and siblings often because they live in different areas. One of
Bobby’s brothers lives in
As far as Bobby’s professional legacy, Bobby described his career as a
boxer with a mixture of thoughtful analysis and humor.
“Not great. Not extraordinary, but solid. I’ve competed in the top
10 in six different weight divisions, won world titles in three (including the
WBU super cruiserweight title), acquitted myself well, never a disgrace to
myself or the sport. It’s just a solid legacy. ‘Solid’ is
probably the most reasonable word I can use. I came, I saw, and most of the
time, I kicked some *ss. I didn’t duck anybody.
I fought whoever was there. I fought the best of my divisions where I could. I
did what I could. I brought everything to the table. You know, there’s! an old saying, ‘You gotta
bring a** to get it.’ Well, mine’s pretty big, and I brought all of
it.”
One of the unique facts about Bobby’s career is that he fought the best
contenders and champions available to him from middleweight to heavyweight. As
a way to illustrate the differences between middleweight and heavyweight, I
asked him to describe what it was like to spar with Tony Ayala Jr. and Ray
Mercer. Here’s what Bobby had to say.
“When I was sparring with Tony Ayala, I weighed like 160, 163, 164. Our sparring sessions were so vicious, that when were
out at Caesar’s Tahoe, people four, five, six floors up would hear about
it, and come down to watch. Eventually, his father said to my father: ‘Listen,
no offense, but I don’t want our sons sparring anymore. They’re two
competitive nuts. They’re going to leave the best years of their lives in
here. They can’t do it. They’re fighting in here. They’re not
sparring.’”
Bobby went on to further descri! be
the sparring sessions.
“Our sparring sessions were like wars. He only knows one way to fight,
and I only know one way to fight. Our sparring sessions were better than most
fights. They were just amazing. It was funny because early in his career, he
(Ayala) got staggered (staggered and knocked down by Mario Maldonado). In the
gym, with the head gear and stuff, you had a little more protection. We had 18
ounce gloves instead of 10, but there were times in the gym---and he’s a
vicious body puncher---that he hit me a couple of times in the body that I
wanted to fu**in’ throw up on him. But also, there were times that I
would catch him, too.”
Bobby then talked about his sparring with Ray Mercer.
“Ray Mercer hit me once that I thought a piece of cement fell out of the
ceiling of the Triple Threat Gym. Jesus Christ! He was weighing about 235
pounds, and I was weighing about 195 at the time. He was right in front of me,
and I couldn’t see him, but I recover ! fast. That was one of my best attributes. As soon as he hit
me, I went, ‘Whoa!’ I immediately ducked and stepped to the right.
Whatever he hit me with, I knew something else was coming. Get out of harm’s
way, but as soon as I’m out of harm’s way, it takes me two seconds
to recover, and then I go about my business.”
Bobby also informed me that he was sometimes able to get the better of Mercer,
and some of their sessions were battled on even terms. He also told me a story
about a sparring session with former heavyweight contender David Bey.
“When I was training out in
Needless to say, the career and life of Bobby Czyz
has never been boring. He is unique and sometimes controversial, but also
generous and friendly. He is fiercely independent, but is also amazingly
protective and loyal. He is unusually bright and well spoken considering the
stereotype of his profession, but he is also unusually bright for any
profession. He defies and shuns most stereotypes. In kind, he is a member of Mensa, but once described himself as “the dumbest
genius ever.”
Bobby Czyz is a member of the New Jersey Boxing Hall
of Fame, and has been inducted into the National Italian-American Sports Hall
of Fame as well. Bobby, who happens to be 1/4 Polish and 3/4 Italian, is on the
ballot to be! inducted into the Polish-American Sports
Hall of Fame.
In my opinion, considering Bobby’s long-term accomplishments as a
professional prizefighter, and that he was self-managed during most of his
career, he should be an automatic inductee into the Los Angeles-based World
Boxing Hall of Fame. Hopefully, that organization will act appropriately and
include Bobby among other inductees who didn’t accomplish as much as
Bobby did during his career. The following is a link to the WBHF:
www.wbhf.org/index.html.
As far as Canastota goes, I’m still confused as to the criteria a fighter
must meet to be inducted into Canastota. In viewing the list of fighters
inducted into Canastota (http://www.ibhof.com./), instinct tells me that some
fighters belong, and others don’t. I respect all fighters, but when you
look at the IBHOF list of inductees, you’ll see that many don’t fit
in with the accepted greats of the past. In fact, I believe officials of the
IBHOF would be well ser! ved
in the future to put a one-year moratorium on inductions to establish an iron
clad criteria to uphold the integrity of Canastota in the future.
Regarding the IBHOF and the career of Bobby Czyz,
Bobby described his legacy as “Not great. Not extraordinary, but solid.”
In my opinion, Bobby’s legacy as a fighter is definitely solid, but his
legacy is also sprinkled with extraordinary accomplishments under adverse and
uncustomary circumstances. Bobby Chacon was inducted into Canastota this year.
He is one of the toughest warriors to enter the ring, but did he really
accomplish as much over the long haul as Bobby Czyz,
and other fighters as well? Another example to consider is the induction of
featherweight titlist Barry McGuigan.
In examining Czyz’s career, one item to ponder
---without even taking into account Czyz’s
solid accomplishments at middleweight and super middleweight--is Czyz’s weight increases as a percentage of body weight
from light heavyweig! ht to
cruiserweight to heavyweight. Can you imagine Chacon, who won his first world
title as a featherweight, bulking up to fight world championship bouts and
highly ranked contenders between junior welterweight, welterweight, and junior
middleweight? All told, the overall situation needs to be analyzed, and only
time will tell whether Bobby Czyz’s
accomplishments during an unorthodox and decorated career merit induction into
Canastota.
If I could create my own Hall of Fame, Bobby would actually be part of boxing’s version of the “All Madden Team.”
In contrast to Bobby’s conventional persona, his heart and soul are
deeper and infinitely more complex than the images and sound bites we get
through print an electronic media. As you’ve read in this interview, he
took amazing risks, faced extreme adversity, battled against the odds, and was
willing to face anyone at anytime regardless of size or reputation. Bobby Czyz isn’t simply “white, bright, and polite,”
he is actually! one of the most misunderstood and
inordinately tough fighters to enter the ring during the modern era.
Author’s Note: I would be certainly be negligent in my duties without
making special acknowledgements to several people who played a significant role
in this interview process. Special thanks go out to Matt DiTomasso
for making this interview possible. To Wayne DiMaggio, for providing some of
the newer pictures of Bobby in Part 3 of the interview series. To Tony Paglucci, Sr. and Tony Paglucci ,Jr., for providing
additional insight into Bobby’s career and life. Tony Sr. was in Bobby’s
corner for most of his fights, and functioned as a sparring partner
periodically in Bobby’s career. Most importantly, to Bobby Czyz, for the thoughtful gratitude, time, and effort he put
into this interview.
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